James Ford

[Debussy]

Yes!

[Spittingcat]

Was it worth it?

For most songs, absolutely. But in a few cases... the arrangements are too reduced.

The best answer to this though, would have been "Pet Shop Boys Remixes", that added to Ford's production... rather than releasing the demos and leaving us to imagine how the lush real instruments and more vibrant synths could have worked together. We need a return to some PSB extended mixes when they release singles... pretty please?

[ still release the demos though... just not instead of PSB's own mixes based on the full production ]

Oh, there are some songs where this flips around... where the demos are sparser... and so feel more intimate... and I prefer them (New London Boy & Bullet for example)... so it's not all about reduction or not.

[Gabby]

So now that we've heard the demos it's safe to say that James Ford enhanced and polished the final songs, but sacrificing the more electronic elements from the demos. Was it worth it?

So far (only at New London Boy) no. Kind of...

Yes, they are more polished, but enhanced? Ummm...the electronic elements to me is what is the essence of PSB. Take them out, and you're left with a bunch of great songs that just don't sound very "Pet Shop Boysy". That's where I feel Stuart Price really "got" them and why the album Very is so aptly titled even today.

[Disco.]

This is a fairly complicated question. I think PSB loom large in the studio, and by midway through their career at least some producers didn’t seem to exert much, if any influence. “Bilingual” comes to mind in this regard, did the producers make any difference on this album? “Bilingual” sounds self-produced all the way through.

I remember reading in “Literally” way back after the release of “Very” their former mixer, Bob Kraushaar, commented that he was constantly pushing them to strip back their mixes and make them less dense.

For “Electric” the choice of Stuart Price seemed to have a noticeable impact, though Price also commented he was extremely assertive with them in the studio and often overruled their preferences. Just listen to the difference between the “Vocal” demo and the finished track. By “Super” the difference Price made was still tangible, but less pronounced. Then by “Hotspot”, at least to my ears, their creative chemistry seemed to have run its course and in my mind this is by far the least of the Price trilogy, similar to the place David Bowie’s “Lodger” occupies in his own Berlin trilogy. By this point it’s almost as if PSB had assimilated Price and have returned to their more-or-less usual sound. “Hotspot” really falls apart with the inclusion of the final three songs, which don’t suit the album at all and we know they had more appropriate material prepared at the time, which Price was fully aware of. “An open mind” and “Decide” would have worked much, much better than “Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” Price produced versions of “I will fall” or even “The lost room” would have fit as well.

When they announced James Ford as the producer of “Nonetheless” I was less than thrilled as I wasn’t a fan of Depeche Mode “Spirit”, which he also produced. Having said that, upon hearing the finished “Nonetheless” album it was a revelation. Ford did indeed simplify their sound and “Nonetheless” is a smooth listen. Over the years PSB albums have become increasingly harsh sounding, but in spite of the massive amounts of compression they use in the mastering process, “Nonetheless” is their most pleasant sounding album since perhaps “Behavior.” As Kraushaar suggested all those decades ago, the mixes are much less complicated than usual and the songs mostly benefit from it. It will be interesting to hear the difference between the “Nonetheless” demos and the finished album when they are released next month. I strongly suspect there will be a large contingent of fans who prefer the demos as they will likely sound more like the PSB we’ve grown accustomed to, with more going on sonically within the tracks.

Because PSB have been perfecting their craft for so long and are so expert at it, I think it takes a particularly strong, opinionated, and talented producer to truly have a significant impact on the final product.

I wonder if it was Price who disallowed An open mind” and “Decide” to make Hotspot = it would have made the album one of their absolute finest. All three of Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” would have made better b-sides. And open mind is easily strong enough to be a single

Only the dark = The best song on Hotspot,.

[Disco.]

And it was Chris who vetoed that Decide shouldn’t be on the album, it’s in Annually..

[jules]

So now that we've heard the demos it's safe to say that James Ford enhanced and polished the final songs, but sacrificing the more electronic elements from the demos. Was it worth it?

If Ford let the basic structures of the songs , he took down the electronic parts of the album. Looks like psb had something else in mind at the beginning. Another producer would have enhanced or made a much more different album. Ford did a good job however.

Looks like psb did release all the demos to show their intent. With Ford or not it would have been a more subtil album than anything of the trilogy (i don't say this in a good or bad way).

[glennjridge]

I dont think he did sacrifice the electronic elements. I think they are still there on the final versions, just buried under the orchestra which IMO the PSB weren't talked into doing but was their plan from the start.

I think to orchestra or not to orchestra.... is not a producer decision...its too big a decision to either have an orchestra or not on an album. that is straight from the boys IMO

[Nickname]

For me James did a good adding the orchestral arrangments but apart from that you can't notices you can say is particulary stunning.

[vincenzosz]

After hearing the demos it only further reinforces my previous feelings that the album electronics sound “demo-y”. A lot, if not most of the electronic sounds are almost identical to the demos.

He improved some of the arrangements and added in the strings, but I see evidence in these demos that he didn’t develop these tracks a heck of a lot.

I was a fan of Stuart Price because not only did he understand their sound, but (as evidenced by his output) he saw the demos as blueprints and then further developed the songs to realize the potential of each, even if that meant changing things up. Which is, in my opinion, the sign of a good producer.

Neil’s vocals in these demos aren’t his best, but there is a more natural delivery, where as in the final song on Loneliness, Feel, Why am I dancing, Dancing star and A New Bohemia he is either singing in a higher register or the songs are being mixed to enhance this higher register. Either way it’s not working as well for me.

He does an excellent job on The secret of happiness, which is much smoother in the final song. Though I still feel like it doesn’t sound like a Pet Shop Boys song production-wise.

As much as I can appreciate elements of this album, I feel the demos overall weren’t done justice and the “lush” album we were promised sounds much more sparse than I had hoped for.

The new singles from St. Lucia (a band im not overly fond of) are a great example of using orchestra to evoke a lush and warm sound yet still retain an excited euphoria without sounding busy.

I’m very much hoping for a new producer next album.

[vincenzosz]

This is a fairly complicated question. I think PSB loom large in the studio, and by midway through their career at least some producers didn’t seem to exert much, if any influence. “Bilingual” comes to mind in this regard, did the producers make any difference on this album? “Bilingual” sounds self-produced all the way through.

I remember reading in “Literally” way back after the release of “Very” their former mixer, Bob Kraushaar, commented that he was constantly pushing them to strip back their mixes and make them less dense.

For “Electric” the choice of Stuart Price seemed to have a noticeable impact, though Price also commented he was extremely assertive with them in the studio and often overruled their preferences. Just listen to the difference between the “Vocal” demo and the finished track. By “Super” the difference Price made was still tangible, but less pronounced. Then by “Hotspot”, at least to my ears, their creative chemistry seemed to have run its course and in my mind this is by far the least of the Price trilogy, similar to the place David Bowie’s “Lodger” occupies in his own Berlin trilogy. By this point it’s almost as if PSB had assimilated Price and have returned to their more-or-less usual sound. “Hotspot” really falls apart with the inclusion of the final three songs, which don’t suit the album at all and we know they had more appropriate material prepared at the time, which Price was fully aware of. “An open mind” and “Decide” would have worked much, much better than “Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” Price produced versions of “I will fall” or even “The lost room” would have fit as well.

When they announced James Ford as the producer of “Nonetheless” I was less than thrilled as I wasn’t a fan of Depeche Mode “Spirit”, which he also produced. Having said that, upon hearing the finished “Nonetheless” album it was a revelation. Ford did indeed simplify their sound and “Nonetheless” is a smooth listen. Over the years PSB albums have become increasingly harsh sounding, but in spite of the massive amounts of compression they use in the mastering process, “Nonetheless” is their most pleasant sounding album since perhaps “Behavior.” As Kraushaar suggested all those decades ago, the mixes are much less complicated than usual and the songs mostly benefit from it. It will be interesting to hear the difference between the “Nonetheless” demos and the finished album when they are released next month. I strongly suspect there will be a large contingent of fans who prefer the demos as they will likely sound more like the PSB we’ve grown accustomed to, with more going on sonically within the tracks.

Because PSB have been perfecting their craft for so long and are so expert at it, I think it takes a particularly strong, opinionated, and talented producer to truly have a significant impact on the final product.

I wonder if it was Price who disallowed An open mind” and “Decide” to make Hotspot = it would have made the album one of their absolute finest. All three of Only the dark”, “Burning the heather”, and “Wedding in Berlin.” would have made better b-sides. And open mind is easily strong enough to be a single

Only the dark = The best song on Hotspot,.

Two things:

- I also like Only the dark
- Though I don’t share the appreciation of its charm, I can at least see it in An open mind. But a single? I don’t find this song particularly definitive Pet Shop Boys, but then again - to each his own.

[Sandy Shaw]

He does an excellent job on The secret of happiness, which is much smoother in the final song. Though I still feel like it doesn’t sound like a Pet Shop Boys song production-wise.

In fairness Chris has openly said that he had absolutely no input into this track. It's Neil's baby - interesting to hear Nei;'s proficient Garage Band programming too on the demo.

[ChrisLove]

Neil’s vocals in these demos aren’t his best, but there is a more natural delivery, where as in the final song on Loneliness, Feel, Why am I dancing, Dancing star and A New Bohemia he is either singing in a higher register or the songs are being mixed to enhance this higher register. Either way it’s not working as well for me.

I’m very much hoping for a new producer next album.

Yes i agree and i think that the next time they should produce themselves or choose Pete Gleadall

[Nickname]

Neil’s vocals in these demos aren’t his best, but there is a more natural delivery, where as in the final song on Loneliness, Feel, Why am I dancing, Dancing star and A New Bohemia he is either singing in a higher register or the songs are being mixed to enhance this higher register. Either way it’s not working as well for me.

I’m very much hoping for a new producer next album.

Yes i agree and i think that the next time they should produce themselves or choose Pete Gleadall

I'd go for two producers for the same song. First production by Stuart Price and then a second one by Trevor Horn and his team.

[TallThinMan]

I'd go for two producers for the same song. First production by Stuart Price and then a second one by Trevor Horn and his team.

Trevor was last heard producing an album of cover versions.

[dylanww73]

I'd go for two producers for the same song. First production by Stuart Price and then a second one by Trevor Horn and his team.

Trevor was last heard producing an album of cover versions.

Yup, his time has well and truly passed. Why go back?? That was a truly silly suggestion.