Album 16 - and the ghosts of producers past, present and future

[Dog]

A bit of a curveball here, but I'd like them to record the Naked soundtrack and release it as their own album. It's a one word title, after all... It might be a 'learning' from the Closer to Heaven experience, where the OST didn't get much exposure.

I can’t help but think that if this was their plan they’d have left Why am I dancing? off Nonetheless.

[Dog]

Yep, they tried but I think he was on a different page to them.

I’d love them to do something with Eno, and they’ve said they would still like to. They said that the session with him fizzled out but that this was largely a communication / management / misunderstanding. Also, as per the article, they’ve acknowledged that they’d be better writing with him, rather than turning up with fully formed demos. That would make for a great next project. Maybe All the young dudes is signposting us back to Bowie World.

[Dog]

I'd hope for younger producers, in general.

Over the years, Hague, Mendelsohn, Price, and, er, X, have struck me as those most in sync with them (though the latter is working off a very small sample size). I suspect Ford will go the way of Dawson and Higgins, interesting diversions that refresh the palate.

Production choices seem very swayed by fashion. Would that make Richard X an unlikely choice? I'd hope not, becaúse his overall body of work strikes me as being well-aligned with their sound - but he's not exactly new himself (if that matters). What are they trying to achieve with a producer at this point? A commercial hit, a contemporary sound, elegance? Ford and Dawson made sense in terms of the latter. Price gave them a more modern sheen. I tend to prefer a contemporary sound - if only because I see them as a pop group and pop groups should always strive to be new and current. Even if the singer is 70.

But maybe there is too much emphasis put on the producer by fans. Speaking for myself, I seem to hold James Ford responsible for what I suspect are iffy production choices given some of the omissions on Nonetheless that elevated the demos. Yet, wasn't Ford on the decks when Chris Lowe found his inner mojo on the last two minutes of the Dark end of the street? That was magical. Chris is also notorious for favouring a homogenous sound on an album. Get that right, and it's glorious. But if the chosen "sound" is not to one's taste, well the homogenous record will hold fewer delights than something with a little more diversity...

Drico.

I have to say, the version of their sound they found with James Ford isn’t my favourite. I love the idea - strings / reflective / song-writerery / electronics / warm - but Nonetheless for me isn’t quite the sum of these parts. The songwriting is as good as ever. There’s an absolute tonne of ideas. But it’s the likes of Through you and Beauty has laid which really make me sit up. I think Ford’s production of Neil’s vocals is key to this; I much prefer the vocal sound of the demos.

[TallThinMan]

I have to say, the version of their sound they found with James Ford isn’t my favourite. I love the idea - strings / reflective / song-writerery / electronics / warm - but Nonetheless for me isn’t quite the sum of these parts. The songwriting is as good as ever. There’s an absolute tonne of ideas. But it’s the likes of Through you and Beauty has laid which really make me sit up. I think Ford’s production of Neil’s vocals is key to this; I much prefer the vocal sound of the demos.

Pet Shop Boys have often spoken about the elusive hunt for "that ecstatic moment" when making records. Who can forget the first time they heard the brutal synthesiser bassline of 'West End Girls' kick in? Or the onslaught of 'It's A Sin'? Chris's brilliant brass riff from 'Always On My Mind'? Or the massive orchestra hits of 'Can You Forgive Her?'

Stuart Price brought back the ecstatic moments for 'Electric' in tracks like 'Axis' and 'More Than A Dream'. 'Nonetheless' is a beautiful record. I would argue that it's their most beautiful since 'Behaviour'. It flows incredibly well and is probably their most cohesive-sounding album. However, what it is not, is an exciting record. For example, 'Why Am I Dancing?' should have ecstatic moments, but on the album it doesn't quite hit the target. It falls flat. The strings are gorgeous, but the synthesiser parts don't delight and intrigue like they did on 'So Hard'. There's not enough ear candy. For me, 'Feel' comes the closest to the ecstatic moment when the lovely chorus tune arrives.

All that said, 'Nonetheless' is still one of my favourite albums they've made.

[Tom Angel]

Boy Harsher would be interesting -

Why on earth did they not put the extended mix on the single of New London boy? It's just such a stupid move to leave that unreleased.

[Dog]

I have to say, the version of their sound they found with James Ford isn’t my favourite. I love the idea - strings / reflective / song-writerery / electronics / warm - but Nonetheless for me isn’t quite the sum of these parts. The songwriting is as good as ever. There’s an absolute tonne of ideas. But it’s the likes of Through you and Beauty has laid which really make me sit up. I think Ford’s production of Neil’s vocals is key to this; I much prefer the vocal sound of the demos.

Pet Shop Boys have often spoken about the elusive hunt for "that ecstatic moment" when making records. Who can forget the first time they heard the brutal synthesiser bassline of 'West End Girls' kick in? Or the onslaught of 'It's A Sin'? Chris's brilliant brass riff from 'Always On My Mind'? Or the massive orchestra hits of 'Can You Forgive Her?'

Stuart Price brought back the ecstatic moments for 'Electric' in tracks like 'Axis' and 'More Than A Dream'. 'Nonetheless' is a beautiful record. I would argue that it's their most beautiful since 'Behaviour'. It flows incredibly well and is probably their most cohesive-sounding album. However, what it is not, is an exciting record. For example, 'Why Am I Dancing?' should have ecstatic moments, but on the album it doesn't quite hit the target. It falls flat. The strings are gorgeous, but the synthesiser parts don't delight and intrigue like they did on 'So Hard'. There's not enough ear candy. For me, 'Feel' comes the closest to the ecstatic moment when the lovely chorus tune arrives.

All that said, 'Nonetheless' is still one of my favourite albums they've made.

Pretty sure I agree with this.

[Dog]

Boy Harsher would be interesting -

Why on earth did they not put the extended mix on the single of New London boy? It's just such a stupid move to leave that unreleased.

Do we know there is a longer mix?

[Spittingcat]

There’s a fan mix. I don’t think there’s a real one.

[Spittingcat]

I had a thought… going back into the studio with Ford just to record two cover versions… what’s that about? Suggests more is going to happen there to me.

Personally… Richard X or Stuart Price please… but with a budget for real strings… and emotional guitar players. Ta.

[Drico One]

Yes, the lack of excitement is palpable on Nonetheless. It might be beautiful - and there are many gorgeous moments - but it's a very flat listen. I would also argue that none of the beautiful stately tracks on Nonetheless match up to the magnificence of Leaving or Invisible from the much maligned Elysium. So, even if one accepts that Nonetheless was supposed to be a very different experience to Electric and Super, it still doesn't hit the heights, in my view, that previous records of a more sedate tempo did.

That said, I think there's plenty of ecstasy to be found on Dancing star and Loneliness. It's just that those tracks starkly expose how befeft much of the rest of the album is.

Feel is also an exception to the general malaise. It doesn't attempt to be "stately". It simply floats along creating something quite unique in their catalogue.

I never think the signs are great when we hear lots of excitement about strings before an album is released. They can be used to cover a multitude and a dearth of good ideas. Strings have never been critical to a great Pet Shop Boys song. I wonder if the return to Parlophone happened early enough to suddenly increase their production budget...

Drico.

[Dog]

10 tracks in the vein of Nonetheless that, to me, sound better than most tracks on Nonetheless:

My October symphony
Liberation
Dreaming of the Queen
The Survivors
I don’t know what you want
For all of us
Miracles
I made my excuses and left
Beautiful people
Breathing space

[MikeyC]

I’m a huge fan of Richard X… and I mentioned this recently but will reiterate… considering he produced an Erasure album in the past decade, I think it’s questionable that PSB would utilize him for a new album. x

[jasonjohn]

My main gripe with Nonetheless is occasionally the vocals needed a bit more soulfulness - in particular the shouty chorus on Dancing Star and the opening verse of Loneliness. I really miss the vibe of Elysium, but you can't have that all the time.

But beyond that, I can't complain! It was a well received album, and I enjoyed Ford's mixes.

They felt modern to my ears, and I think James Ford produced a bit of a "hipster" recording - more mellow and less highly strung than some of their other works. It's a very approachable album.

Stuart Price brought back the ecstatic moments for 'Electric' in tracks like 'Axis' and 'More Than A Dream'.

Yeah my bet is the next album might be "Ecstatic" or "Elation"

And as I said on the other page, it'd be cool if the album opened with three bangers, rather than immediately sliding into slow temp.

I'm fairly sure they will return to a more stabby crisp synth sound, which seems to be the main gripe in here.

All that said, 'Nonetheless' is still one of my favourite albums they've made.

Agreed

[TallThinMan]

I would be happy for them to make another album with James Ford and to see what direction it went in.

[Ramzy]

I'd be thrilled with a second Ford album. I don't think I'm hearing the same record as some others here because to me it's the purest and most effortless PSB album in years, and I really love both the sound and songwriting - in contention with Fundy for my favourite album of theirs since Bilingual. If I were being unfair, I'd say some of the views I'm seeing here look a little like people complaining in 2016 that Bowie made the exquisite Blackstar instead of trying to repeat Rebel Rebel.

(Btw, brilliant post, Dog - really enjoyed it!)