Things are changing

[York Minster]

Why doesn't whateverman talk about the actual things we know about concerning how the US fu$ked over other places: Guatamala, Congo, El Salvador, Philippines, et al. WE are STILL and imperialist power what with our five territorries.

[whateverman42]

True enough, but being so blinkered that the only people you believe are the likes Alex Jones and David Icke, who've made a career out of selling conspiracy theories and then having the gall to accuse others of being narrow minded is quite an annoying trait.

The problem with all this stuff is that to my mind it's just another emotional crutch. Conspiracy theorists need to believe that there's something to fight against. The world is shit, yes. Big corporations, polititians and various people in power in various places screw people over, yes. To put it down to some organised conspiracy though is just another way of trying to rationalise a world in which bad stuff happens essentially randomly. It's not the devil and it's not the illuminati, it's just various individuals in various places being selfish independently and often at odds with each other. Believing in conspiracy theories not accepting the real world, it's avoiding it.

Where's your proof? You say its random and independent, so where's your proof? Is it a gut feeling? At least I have plenty of historical prededent for secret societies and false flag attacks. And I'm also not brainwashed to believe powerful people could never get together and have a plan. And there's plenty of other researchers than just Alex Jones and David Icke.

Heard of Bill Cooper? He predicted 9/11 three months before it happened and was murdered a month afterwards.



Redsock, I think they're spraying us with heavy metals to lower our immunity. Its a soft-kill method. More than that its also a tool to manipulate the weather. And the excuse they'll use when the truth comes out is that they were doing it for our own good, to fight global warming. There's a million other things as well. Have you heard of the seed bank in the arctic? The elite have stockpiled all the natural seeds for themselves, now Monsanto is manufacturing seeds that don't reproduce so farmers will need to buy from them every year, and the seeds are needed because they're made to be resistant to aluminum, which is killing crops everywhere. And the aluminum comes from chemtrails. Beck wrote a song about it, and Prince has spoken about it as well:





I recommend watching the chemtrail doc I posted, its well made and backed up by scientific evidence. Its not just the ramblings of a kook. Here's the trailer.

[whateverman42]

Why doesn't whateverman talk about the actual things we know about concerning how the US fu$ked over other places: Guatamala, Congo, El Salvador, Philippines, et al. WE are STILL and imperialist power what with our five territorries.

I can if you want, I've read Confessions of an Economic Hitman and seen Zeitgeist Addendum. But you'll blame Bush and Obama, whereas I blame their controllers. America doesn't really exist anymore, its being driven like the most powerful car on the lot to carry out their plans for a new world order.

[Your Funny Uncle]

Where's MY proof? HAHAHAHAHAHA! You're the one that's making the extraordinary claims here. Secret societies are one thing but ones that have global power and excersise it on an immense scale and manage to effectively cover it up to such an extent that most don't believe it, except of course you and the followers of Alex Jones? (Who oddly after all these years still hasn't been "silenced" like Bill Cooper despite his encyclopaedic knowledge of all they do!) Give me a break!

And the chem trails stuff? Again you claim there's scientific evidence but there is a surprising lack of credible scientists backing you up and a lot of people disputing the claims. Of course that's the illumiti's influence I forgot... Also... Spreading chemicals at 30000 feet? How the hell do they know where they will land? What a ludicrously inefficient method!

[York Minster]

Why doesn't whateverman talk about the actual things we know about concerning how the US fu$ked over other places: Guatamala, Congo, El Salvador, Philippines, et al. WE are STILL and imperialist power what with our five territorries.

I can if you want, I've read Confessions of an Economic Hitman and seen Zeitgeist Addendum. But you'll blame Bush and Obama, whereas I blame their controllers. America doesn't really exist anymore, its being driven like the most powerful car on the lot to carry out their plans for a new world order.

At what point did the president/congress/supreme court stop having power? John Tyler? Grant? Taft? Coolidge? Truman? Nixon? Please enlighten us.

[Your Funny Uncle]

Oh and I forgot to ask... If as you claimed in my BBC thread the conspirators have control over the major news networks, why can they suddenly no longer stop Fox, the flagship US channel of the Murdoch media empire from broadcasting "the truth"?

[redsock]

Redsock, I think they're spraying us with heavy metals to lower our immunity. Its a soft-kill method. More than that its also a tool to manipulate the weather. And the excuse they'll use when the truth comes out is that they were doing it for our own good, to fight global warming. There's a million other things as well ....

Who are "they" and to what end, what possible reason is there for them to do this ?

[York Minster]

Redsock, I think they're spraying us with heavy metals to lower our immunity. Its a soft-kill method. More than that its also a tool to manipulate the weather. And the excuse they'll use when the truth comes out is that they were doing it for our own good, to fight global warming. There's a million other things as well ....

Who are "they" and to what end, what possible reason is there for them to do this ?

He doesn't know, and he doesn't have answers to that or anything else he spouts. That's the issue. Without some sort of emprical evidence, it's all hogwash. I believe there might be more to life than materialism, but for the sake of debates, we are all going to need a bit of empiricism I'm afraid.

[Drico One]

Well if you believe 9/11 was done by rich satanists who used it as a pretext to start phony wars resulting in millions of deaths... how can you not try to tell people who believe its the muslim's fault?

Do you believe that 9/11 was carried out by "rich satanists" like the rest of those paranoid reactionaries you call "truthers"?

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that a flagrantly imperial foreign policy conducted for generations resulting in the oppression of millions inevitably unleashed a destructive backlash? There's your plausible motive right there - and not a satanist in sight. It's a less sexy reason for the carnage of September 11, but it's staring anybody who chooses to engage their brain squarely in the face.

If you think the US government was somehow involved in September 11, you'd be right. It created the circumstances for the outrage through its imperialist foreign policy, appalling treatment of Palestine, and myopic self-interest in the middle-east. Yet, you prefer to imagine it had to bomb the towers itself. Because that would be a conspiracy and you are a conspiracist. It's what you do.

Drico.

[York Minster]

Well if you believe 9/11 was done by rich satanists who used it as a pretext to start phony wars resulting in millions of deaths... how can you not try to tell people who believe its the muslim's fault?

Do you believe that 9/11 was carried out by "rich satanists" like the rest of those paranoid reactionaries you call "truthers"?

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that a flagrantly imperial foreign policy conducted for generations resulting in the oppression of millions inevitably unleashed a destructive backlash? There's your plausible motive right there - and not a satanist in sight. It's a less sexy reason for the carnage of September 11, but it's staring anybody who chooses to engage their brain squarely in the face.

If you think the US government was somehow involved in September 11, you'd be right. It created the circumstances for the outrage through its imperialist foreign policy, appalling treatment of Palestine, and myopic self-interest in the middle-east. Yet, you prefer to imagine it had to bomb the towers itself. Because that would be a conspiracy and you are a conspiracist. It's what you do.

Drico.

Right on

[whateverman42]

Where's MY proof? HAHAHAHAHAHA! You're the one that's making the extraordinary claims here. Secret societies are one thing but ones that have global power and excersise it on an immense scale and manage to effectively cover it up to such an extent that most don't believe it, except of course you and the followers of Alex Jones? (Who oddly after all these years still hasn't been "silenced" like Bill Cooper despite his encyclopaedic knowledge of all they do!) Give me a break!

And the chem trails stuff? Again you claim there's scientific evidence but there is a surprising lack of credible scientists backing you up and a lot of people disputing the claims. Of course that's the illumiti's influence I forgot... Also... Spreading chemicals at 30000 feet? How the hell do they know where they will land? What a ludicrously inefficient method!

Extraordinary claims compared to what the media tells us. They're not extraordinary at all to a completely unbiased person, they're just another possible explanation. You have to prove 9/11 was done by muslims in caves, and if you don't want to or can't you don't get the right to laugh at me for believing something else.

And like most debunkers you ask me to speculate. Fine, Alex isn't dead because they took out Bill, the most reasonable and dangerous threat at the time. Killing another under suspicious circumstances would be underlining their message. Not to mention support for the alternative media has exploded exponentially. Murdering a high-profile researcher makes no sense anymore. And you can't believe chemtrails because its not specific or exact enough of a method? Its weather manipulation first, then blanketing humans and crops. For reasons I've already explained.

At what point did the president/congress/supreme court stop having power? John Tyler? Grant? Taft? Coolidge? Truman? Nixon? Please enlighten us.

Research the secret meeting at Jekyll Island in 1910, which used to be a conspiracy theory. But even before the bankers were finally able to create a central bank the major battle in America was that very issue. Andrew Jackson won the presidency on a platform of 'No bank'. What else.. here's a quote of George Washington which simply proves the Illuminati were at the very least historical fact:

To Revd W. Snyder
Mount Vernon, October 24, 1798

Revd Sir: I have your favor of the 17th. instant before me; and my only motive to trouble you with the receipt of this letter, is to explain, and correct a mistake which I perceive the hurry in which I am obliged, often, to write letters, have led you into.

It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am.

The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation). That Individuals of them may have done it, or that the founder, or instrument employed to found, the Democratic Societies in the United States, may have had these objects; and actually had a seperation of the People from their Government in view, is too evident to be questioned.

My occupations are such, that but little leisure is allowed me to read News Papers, or Books of any kind; the reading of letters, and preparing answers, absorb much of my time. With respect, etc.

And of course Lincoln and JFK proved they could take out a president for not toeing the line. That's not an issue anymore as they have taken complete control of who gets elected, although with JFK it seemed more of a misjudgment of his character on their part.

Oh and I forgot to ask... If as you claimed in my BBC thread the conspirators have control over the major news networks, why can they suddenly no longer stop Fox, the flagship US channel of the Murdoch media empire from broadcasting "the truth"?

What? I already explained this thoroughly. Whether or not you agree is another thing, but are you unable to comprehend? What's the point of responding if you're going to ignore it? Not to belabor, but this highlights why you're unable to give an inch. Not only is it because you can't wrap your head around the fact that everything is a lie, but you also can't decipher minimally complex grey areas. I posted a Geraldo video talking about Building 7, so I watch Fox News and I'm eating out of his palm? The order to put this story on came from the very top. Geraldo's attitude of 'the protestors were annoying me, its not my fault' is sickening. You can tell its pissing him off to give air time to a cause he gleefully mocked before. Sure, the fact that victims family members and 1300 architects and engineers were on board caught his attention as if he didn't know that f*** ages ago. This is blatant and is a big deal. Like I said, I think its the first time a mainstream channel has aired these views, and its not because they want to inform the public. They will try to co-opt and steer this movement away from the real truth. Therefore the old method of laughing at truthers is changing to something more complex.

Who are "they" and to what end, what possible reason is there for them to do this ?

That's the easiest thing to answer. Globalists, the old European aristocracy, notably the English (German) royal family, Queen Beatrix, etc. Of course the Rothschild's and the Rockefeller's, who are truly the world's wealthiest. The stuff about Bill Gates and Oprah's fortunes topping the world is propaganda. The Rothschild's and Rockefeller's are in another stratosphere, but they have clever ways of moving and hiding their true wealth. And there must be plenty of families we don't have a clue about, but at least there's some idea here.

What reason? Its not about money, they have all the money they need. Its about control and centralization of power. These are the Georgia Guidestone's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

Hmm, some anonymous donor (smart money's on Ted Turner). Note the first inscription especially, "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature." That's the purpose of chemtrails and fluoride and mercury and GMO food: there's too many of us. We're unwieldy to control and too much of a threat. That's why everyone believes the overpopulation myth; they condition us with propaganda to believe we're a cancer on the earth and we must cull ourselves. Second inscription: "Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity." Eugenics. Teddy Roosevelt:

Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind.... Any group of farmers who permitted their best stock not to breed, and let all the increase come from the worst stock, would be treated as fit inmates for an asylum.... Some day we will realize that the prime duty, the inescapable duty of the good citizens of the right type is to leave his or her blood behind him in the world; and that we have no business to permit the perpetuation of citizens of the wrong type. The great problem of civilization is to secure a relative increase of the valuable as compared with the less valuable or noxious elements in the population... The problem cannot be met unless we give full consideration to the immense influence of heredity...

I wish very much that the wrong people could be prevented entirely from breeding; and when the evil nature of these people is sufficiently flagrant, this should be done. Criminals should be sterilized and feebleminded persons forbidden to leave offspring behind them... The emphasis should be laid on getting desirable people to breed...

The Rockefeller's fund the hell out of eugenics. Here's Dr. Corenius Roads, funded by the Rockefeller Institute:

The Puerto Ricans are the dirtiest, laziest, most dangerous and theivish race of men ever inhabiting this sphere... I have done my best to further the process of extermination by killing off eight and transplanting cancer into several more... All physicians take delight in the abuse and torture of the unfortunate subjects.

What did David Rockefeller have to say about Chairman Mao and Communist China?

Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but also in fostering high morale and community of purpose. The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history.

Here's Barbara Marx Hubbard, supported by the Rockefeller Fund:

Out of the full spectrum of human personality... one-fourth is destructive... They are defective seeds... In the past they were permitted to die a 'natural death.' the elders the destructive one-fourth must be eliminated from the social body . Fortunately, you... are not responsible for this act. We are. We are in charge of God's selection process for Death... We come to bring death... The riders of the pale horse are about to pass among you. Grim reapers, they will separate the wheat from the chaff. This is the most painful period in the history of humanity.

Of course after Hitler embarrassed them, they had to rebrand eugenics, and now we have such institutions as Planned Parenthood.

"As we celebrate the 100th birthday of Margaret Sanger, our outrageous and our courageous leader, we will probably find a number of areas in which we may find more about Margaret Sanger than we thought we wanted to know…"
- Faye Wattleton, Past-president of Planned Parenthood

MARGARET SANGER QUOTES, Founder of the Birth Control League (which later became Planned Parenthood)

"No woman shall have the legal right to bear a child… without a permit for parenthood."
- Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) in her proposed The American Baby Code, intended to become law.

"The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
- Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel, Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race. New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."
- Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.

"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need … We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
- Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review.

"Eugenics is … the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems."
- Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"Birth control itself, often denounced as a violation of natural law, is nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or of those who will become defectives."

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
Margaret Sanger. "The Eugenic Value of Birth Control Propaganda." Birth Control Review, October 1921, page 5.

"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying … demonstrates our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism ...
- Margaret Sanger. The Pivot of Civilization, 1922. Chapter on "The Cruelty of Charity," pages 116, 122, and 189. Swarthmore College Library edition.

"The undeniably feeble-minded should, indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind."
- Margaret Sanger, quoted in Charles Valenza. "Was Margaret Sanger a Racist?" Family Planning Perspectives, January-February 1985, page 44.

"Give dysgenic groups [people with 'bad genes'] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization."
- Margaret Sanger, April 1932 Birth Control Review.

But even eugenics is only one part. Personally, I view 1984 as their goal. Why? They have massive ego and radiate hubris, they feel truly elite, and they play with the masses like spoiled kids with their toys. They're going to make us so stupid with their propaganda programming and chemicals that rebellion would be as unthinkable as a flock of sheep rebelling against a sheepherder. They will get to explore the universe for themselves as the human race splits into two.

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that a flagrantly imperial foreign policy conducted for generations resulting in the oppression of millions inevitably unleashed a destructive backlash? There's your plausible motive right there - and not a satanist in sight. It's a less sexy reason for the carnage of September 11, but it's staring anybody who chooses to engage their brain squarely in the face.

If you think the US government was somehow involved in September 11, you'd be right. It created the circumstances for the outrage through its imperialist foreign policy, appalling treatment of Palestine, and myopic self-interest in the middle-east. Yet, you prefer to imagine it had to bomb the towers itself. Because that would be a conspiracy and you are a conspiracist. It's what you do.

Ummmm, did men in caves make NORAD stand down? Four failures in one day for an air defense system that had a 100% success rate the previous year? Did men in caves somehow get thermite in the dust? What about the #3 man in Al CIA-da dining at the Pentagon after 9/11?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/ ... 8200.shtml

Look, its CBS, so its legitimate. Anyways, I don't believe it was an inside job because I'm prone to conspiracies, I believe because of all the evidence. If it all happened as the official conspiracy states, perhaps there would be no thermite in the dust... perhaps NORAD would have shot down the planes lickety split... perhaps the Pentagon would release a video of a plane hitting the building... perhaps the ridiculous amount of eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions wouldn't exist... you know, simple stuff that would make sense. This might be the longest post I've ever done!

[York Minster]

Quote:
At what point did the president/congress/supreme court stop having power? John Tyler? Grant? Taft? Coolidge? Truman? Nixon? Please enlighten us.


Research the secret meeting at Jekyll Island in 1910, which used to be a conspiracy theory. But even before the bankers were finally able to create a central bank the major battle in America was that very issue. Andrew Jackson won the presidency on a platform of 'No bank'. What else.. here's a quote of George Washington which simply proves the Illuminati were at the very least historical fact:

What is your point here? This is a very very limited answer. America had two United States Banks, one founded if I remember right in the 1790s, and then the charter ended around the War of 1812, and then another was chartered. Jackson was certainly against the central bank. And by closing the bank, our nation got hit hard by the Panic of 1837. The bank had regulated all the so-called wildcat currency that other small banks had issued at the time. Without that regulation, there was serious issue. Of course, in the civil war we solved this problem by moving away from banks doing what they please into national bank notes backed by funds as well as greenbacks, etc. I'm really not sure of your point. What does the development of the federal reserve involving the Jekyll Island Club have to do with the president/supreme court (Especially SC)/legistlature? Answer in detail or don't answer. When did the three branches start being as controlled by someone as you think they are, and who the fuc% was it? You're just piecing together bunches of secret meetings you know about.

[glennjridge]

no major WMD cache secretly planted on iraq .....no 9/11 conspiracy in NYC.

its as simple as that.

[Your Funny Uncle]

The point is that as Drico said the "official" version IS perfectly plausible to any normal person. Yes there have been cover-ups, and possibly more will come to light (it may even be that there's something in the chemtrails theory or one of the other anomalies that you guys point to as evidence for your delusions) but as I keep pointing out to you such wide-ranging and co-ordinated Machiavellian plans are implausible in the extreme. They require the silence of so many people to work that given what we know about human psychology they are almost certain to fail. This is why the onus is on you to prove and not on us to disprove.

Anyway keep on believing. Thankfully you don't seem to be overriding anyone's brainwashing here. I'll be sure to report back to the queen...

[redsock]

Who are "they" and to what end, what possible reason is there for them to do this ?

That's the easiest thing to answer. Globalists, the old European aristocracy, notably the English (German) royal family, Queen Beatrix, etc. Of course the Rothschild's and the Rockefeller's, who are truly the world's wealthiest. The stuff about Bill Gates and Oprah's fortunes topping the world is propaganda. The Rothschild's and Rockefeller's are in another stratosphere, but they have clever ways of moving and hiding their true wealth. And there must be plenty of families we don't have a clue about, but at least there's some idea here.

What reason? Its not about money, they have all the money they need. Its about control and centralization of power. These are the Georgia Guidestone's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

Hmm, some anonymous donor (smart money's on Ted Turner). Note the first inscription especially, "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature." That's the purpose of chemtrails and fluoride and mercury and GMO food: there's too many of us. We're unwieldy to control and too much of a threat. That's why everyone believes the overpopulation myth; they condition us with propaganda to believe we're a cancer on the earth and we must cull ourselves. Second inscription: "Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity." Eugenics. Teddy Roosevelt:

Ah ! I knew you'd get to the nitty gritty eventually. Think about what you said carefully ..... Do you seriously believe that a group with as much power as you believe they have, are indiscriminately poisoning their own kind ?! Don't you find it strange that it's only really Americans that are reporting these "chem trails" ? Your suggestion would just result in a massive own goal and be the equivalent of crapping in your own house! If "culling the herd" was really on the agenda there are far more efficient and selective ways of doing it.