19 years ahead of the curve.

[tottenhammattspurs]

If you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve got nothing to fear…

Starmer to announce plans for digital ID scheme https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g54g6vgpdo

[Sandy Shaw]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventio ... rn_Liberty

If you haven't heard the story I attending the Convention on Modern Liberty in Bloomsbury in 2009, thanks to the Boys continued highlighting of ''No to ID'' and after the ''No to ID'' session had started Neil came in and coincidentally sat down next to me! I was a bit embarrassed as I had thought he may be there! We didn't speak with each other at all at the tea break. I was thinking that as he was there on a day off not to bother him. I probably should have just given a quick ''hi''!

[stevenwhittingstall]

Time for a remix.

[dbaseboy]

Time for a stand against this dystopian government.

[Patrick Bateman]

I've never understood the issue with ID cards. Obviously if you are a libertarian who is anti-state then you would object (and that's fine) but if you accept the idea of the social contract and a government to which you surrender certain individual freedoms, which is classic liberalism, then why wouldn't the government want to know who was living in the country? I assume that Neil has a passport - why is that so different? Don't register your Oyster card, Neil, they'll know which tube station you got off at!

[dbaseboy]

It’s not the cards per se but the erosion of freedoms, which we’ve witnessed with surveillance cameras etc. A passport is a different mechanism, along with driving licenses. Then there’s the lack of trust over data protection. Each to their own.

[Vintage Youth]

In my part of the world we've needed ID for everything forever but a driving licence or paasport has always sufficed. I guess this will be better for people like my boss, who has neither, nor a mobile phone!! So he tells me, anyway....

[Patrick Bateman]

It’s not the cards per se but the erosion of freedoms, which we’ve witnessed with surveillance cameras etc. A passport is a different mechanism, along with driving licenses. Then there’s the lack of trust over data protection. Each to their own.

But if a surveillance camera helps find and convict a dangerous criminal, why is it such a bad thing? You can go for a walk in the countryside if you want to feel free.

[TallThinMan]

I've never understood the issue with ID cards. Obviously if you are a libertarian who is anti-state then you would object (and that's fine) but if you accept the idea of the social contract and a government to which you surrender certain individual freedoms, which is classic liberalism, then why wouldn't the government want to know who was living in the country? I assume that Neil has a passport - why is that so different? Don't register your Oyster card, Neil, they'll know which tube station you got off at!

Do you trust the government? What about the next government? Or the government after that?

Do you trust the private companies that are likely to be involved in implementing this? Like Fujitsu. Or Palintir.

[Patrick Bateman]

Do you trust the government? What about the next government? Or the government after that?

Do you trust the private companies that are likely to be involved in implementing this? Like Fujitsu. Or Palintir.

No, of course not. I just don't see any alternative in the modern world. Everything we do is recorded and monitored. Perhaps Neil could live off-grid?

[dbaseboy]

It’s not the cards per se but the erosion of freedoms, which we’ve witnessed with surveillance cameras etc. A passport is a different mechanism, along with driving licenses. Then there’s the lack of trust over data protection. Each to their own.

But if a surveillance camera helps find and convict a dangerous criminal, why is it such a bad thing? You can go for a walk in the countryside if you want to feel free.

Surely the question should be how we greatly reduce criminality. They’ve done it in Monaco etc. Need to tackle the problem at source / the root cause.

[TallThinMan]

Do you trust the government? What about the next government? Or the government after that?

Do you trust the private companies that are likely to be involved in implementing this? Like Fujitsu. Or Palintir.

No, of course not. I just don't see any alternative in the modern world. Everything we do is recorded and monitored. Perhaps Neil could live off-grid?

The alternative is to maintain the status quo and not introduce ID cards.

[Patrick Bateman]

Surely the question should be how we greatly reduce criminality. They’ve done it in Monaco etc. Need to tackle the problem at source / the root cause.

Monaco is an extremely different society though.

The same people complaining about ID cards no doubt object to facial recognition technology too. I don't know about you but if I'm heading somewhere, I'd prefer the police had rounded up any muggers, rapists or violent criminals who might be hanging around.

[dbaseboy]

Surely the question should be how we greatly reduce criminality. They’ve done it in Monaco etc. Need to tackle the problem at source / the root cause.

Monaco is an extremely different society though.

The same people complaining about ID cards no doubt object to facial recognition technology too. I don't know about you but if I'm heading somewhere, I'd prefer the police had rounded up any muggers, rapists or violent criminals who might be hanging around.

So why can’t the UK be a different, safer, prosperous place? Why should we live in fear of said criminals? The police’s powers and numbers have been eroded to such a degree that crime is rife and seemingly allowable.

[Vintage Youth]

Re CCTV, because I'm rubbish at sleeping, I've been watching lots of true crime documentaries the past few nights, when you've got people like Levi Bellfield in UK society, as a woman, I'm quite glad of CCTV/number plate recognition. It absolutely helped put him behind bars.
Wayne Couzens too.

But good luck trying to get people in some parts of Northern Ireland to carry a 'BritCard'.