I like to think of it as home...
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But if a surveillance camera helps find and convict a dangerous criminal, why is it such a bad thing? You can go for a walk in the countryside if you want to feel free.dbaseboy wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 8:18 am It’s not the cards per se but the erosion of freedoms, which we’ve witnessed with surveillance cameras etc. A passport is a different mechanism, along with driving licenses. Then there’s the lack of trust over data protection. Each to their own.
Do you trust the government? What about the next government? Or the government after that?Patrick Bateman wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 7:49 am I've never understood the issue with ID cards. Obviously if you are a libertarian who is anti-state then you would object (and that's fine) but if you accept the idea of the social contract and a government to which you surrender certain individual freedoms, which is classic liberalism, then why wouldn't the government want to know who was living in the country? I assume that Neil has a passport - why is that so different? Don't register your Oyster card, Neil, they'll know which tube station you got off at!
No, of course not. I just don't see any alternative in the modern world. Everything we do is recorded and monitored. Perhaps Neil could live off-grid?TallThinMan wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 12:22 pm
Do you trust the government? What about the next government? Or the government after that?
Do you trust the private companies that are likely to be involved in implementing this? Like Fujitsu. Or Palintir.
Surely the question should be how we greatly reduce criminality. They’ve done it in Monaco etc. Need to tackle the problem at source / the root cause.Patrick Bateman wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 12:04 pmBut if a surveillance camera helps find and convict a dangerous criminal, why is it such a bad thing? You can go for a walk in the countryside if you want to feel free.dbaseboy wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 8:18 am It’s not the cards per se but the erosion of freedoms, which we’ve witnessed with surveillance cameras etc. A passport is a different mechanism, along with driving licenses. Then there’s the lack of trust over data protection. Each to their own.
The alternative is to maintain the status quo and not introduce ID cards.Patrick Bateman wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 3:17 pmNo, of course not. I just don't see any alternative in the modern world. Everything we do is recorded and monitored. Perhaps Neil could live off-grid?TallThinMan wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 12:22 pm
Do you trust the government? What about the next government? Or the government after that?
Do you trust the private companies that are likely to be involved in implementing this? Like Fujitsu. Or Palintir.
Monaco is an extremely different society though.dbaseboy wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 4:15 pm
Surely the question should be how we greatly reduce criminality. They’ve done it in Monaco etc. Need to tackle the problem at source / the root cause.
So why can’t the UK be a different, safer, prosperous place? Why should we live in fear of said criminals? The police’s powers and numbers have been eroded to such a degree that crime is rife and seemingly allowable.Patrick Bateman wrote: Sat 27 Sep 2025, 8:38 amMonaco is an extremely different society though.dbaseboy wrote: Fri 26 Sep 2025, 4:15 pm
Surely the question should be how we greatly reduce criminality. They’ve done it in Monaco etc. Need to tackle the problem at source / the root cause.
The same people complaining about ID cards no doubt object to facial recognition technology too. I don't know about you but if I'm heading somewhere, I'd prefer the police had rounded up any muggers, rapists or violent criminals who might be hanging around.