Morrissey versus PSB

Message

lucienchardon · #46 Post by **lucienchardon** » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 7:01 pm

Was Morrisey included in those lists of the Top 100 singles and albums sales by artist? I think those lists were mentioned in this forum but I can't remember. Anyway I don't think it makes sense to say that Morrisey is bigger because his last album did well and his new album debuted at No. 1. If you look at his last few albums before the last one he didn't sell all that many records.

Nickname · #47 Post by **Nickname** » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 7:10 pm

lucienchardon wrote:Was Morrisey included in those lists of the Top 100 singles and albums sales by artist? I think those lists were mentioned in this forum but I can't remember. Anyway I don't think it makes sense to say that Morrisey is bigger because his last album did well and his new album debuted at No. 1. If you look at his last few albums before the last one he didn't sell all that many records.

I think if PSB make a really good record (no Release, no Nightlife, no Bilingual) , they can get the one yet. It's not too late for them. I really believe that, there a lot of people who can buy "Fundamental" (not being a PSB fan).

alig · #48 Post by **alig** » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 7:49 pm

morrissey has had a comeback after seven years and that's the reason he's become so popular. his previous albums didn't sell at all. i know many people who own smith records but hardly anybody owns a morrissey album. i have almost all of them but the only good one is VIVA HATE with a few good ditties. the other albums are really much of a muchness with forgettable melodies that the witty lyrics just can't carry. but let's face it: if the pets decided to quit for an unspecified hiatus and then after seven years they'd say they're releasing a new album, don't you think it would boost their sales, too? that's exactly what mozzah did and suddenly people that never gave a damn about his previous albums wanted to own "quarry" even though it just wasn't that inspired. it's just odd: release flop after flop, quit and then come back.

#49 Post by **Drico One** » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 10:25 pm

Eldritch wrote:Despite his slump in the late nineties, Morrissey is a cultural icon in the way our boys will never be. There is an aura of greatness around him that's the sign of a true legend. Moz already has a place in the pop history and is of far bigger importance than his record sales indicate.

With the greatest respect, Morrissey is really not well known enough to be a cultural icon in the wider sense. Morrissey is an icon to a certain type of indie rock music enthusiast who exists in a scene that celebrates itself. Morrissey is an icon to NME readers who also bought Melody Maker and despised the pop world that existed beyond their natural milieu. He inspires fanaticism in a certain segment of this scene but has no great impact beyond that.

This is not to be disrespectful to him, merely to see him for what he is. He's a marginal figure in a wider cultural sense, a cult, a sacred cow to his worshippers. In that sense, he is no different to Pet Shop Boys.

Joemoz states that Morrissey is bigger than Pet Shop Boys, but, in reality, he's making that claim at the only point in the timeline of Morrissey's career where that argument could stand up to any scrutiny in sales terms. By "bigger" you mean " greater sales" because no other variable is truly measurable. "Influence" is not something that can be accurately quantified.

I don't know how many albums Morrissey has sold, but I doubt it would be significantly greater than the 30 million the PSBs are alleged to have flogged worldwide. I would also doubt that Morrissey's international fanbase is as far-flung and broad as that of the PSBs. The Smiths barely sold a record at their peak and Morrissey's solo career has limped along commercially for 15 years. Critics loved the Smiths, but so what? They loved Radiohead too, but how significant are a few throwaway over-indulgent records in the great scheme of things?

While I admire parts of Morrissey's image and work, I have always believed him to be hugely overestimated in the minds of his devoted followers. Cultural significance is a wooly undefined term in pop music for people who take the folk music of the day too seriously. Britney Spears is a cultural icon, but that just about sums up the importance of such demagoguery. David Beckham is a cultural icon.

The best anybody can truly hope for is to inspire something permanent in a fan base so as to prolong a legitimate interest in one's work and extend an ephemeral career into something culturally significant to its own immediate fanatical milieu. Morrissey has done that as have the PSBs. Golden Balls hasn't, but therein lies the difference between the artist and the pop star. By underestimating the artistic worth of the PSBs, one would place them in the latter category. I have always seen them in the former. However, pop is a more contradictory place to be truly artistic, and Neil and Chris have often been less regarded as a consequence of this inherent contradiction. Mozzer rocks and was never really pop. Credibility is easier to attain - especially among the indie elite to which he appeals and which dominates the popular music press in the UK and beyond.

Drico.

ArseSpanker · #50 Post by **ArseSpanker** » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 11:56 pm

Janet Street-Porter wrote:
ArseSpanker wrote:I think it's always fair to compare the two acts. I think PSB had more in common with The Smiths than they did with Erasure, say, during their peak.
Definitely. The Smiths were essentially a pop group who had more in common with PSB than the likes of The Jesus and Mary Chain.

Exactly. Most people think of guitar bands as being something other than pop music these days. I believe Neil recently cited Arctic Monkeys, et al. as evidence of an upsurge in British pop music. Quite correctly of course.

Everyone seems so concerned with genre these days, back when I were a nipper The Cure were a pop group, of course they're a rock band now without ever changing their sound. They're sshit now as well, obviously...

Kiran · #51 Post by **Kiran** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 10:41 am

Let's take an absolutely fair approach.

Number of Morrisey albums in Kiran's collection : 2
Number of PSB albums in Kiran's collection : More than 2

Case closed.

Fick · #52 Post by **Fick** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 12:30 pm

Pet Shop Boys have sold almost 40 million albums. Morrisey is nowhere near that.

Chrispsb · #53 Post by **Chrispsb** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 12:40 pm

Pet Shop Boys haven't sold 40 M. albums.

Fick · #54 Post by **Fick** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 12:43 pm

Close to 40 m.

Chrispsb · #55 Post by **Chrispsb** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 12:44 pm

If at all 30-35 M.

Fick · #56 Post by **Fick** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 12:47 pm

38 to be precise.

Fick · #57 Post by **Fick** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 12:49 pm

And 17 million singles.

Joemoz · #58 Post by **Joemoz** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 1:08 pm

Fick wrote:And 17 million singles.

Where have you got those numbers from? I'm assuming you have documentation since you present them with such conviction.

From what we usually hear, Very is supposed to have sold around 4 million albums worldwide, and that should be their best sellling album, so something doesn't quite add up.

Fick · #59 Post by **Fick** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 1:19 pm

Nothing in writing.

Joemoz · #60 Post by **Joemoz** » Tue 11 Apr 2006, 1:23 pm

Fick wrote:Nothing in writing.

So why are you wasting space making up numbers?