Things are changing

[whateverman42]

"Please find anything I typed that said I believe lizards rule us. Its simply possible like anything is possible, though its unlikely and I don't subscribe to that particular idea. "

Uh, you still think it's possible, if unlikely. Aside from that crazy-ass nonsense , I really wish Teabaggers who ALL fancy themselves experts on the Constitution would just go die of their own lunacy and hypocrisy. Yeah, they love and worship the US Constitution so much that they can't wait to shred it, amend it, change it . It's a rough draft! to them, for the fuhuct dumb-ass brutal plutocracy they would love to create.

Lizard people. How about the supperrich owners of society playing you rubes like puppets? It amazes me that you see conspiracy everywhere, when the real, actual conspiracy is in front of your fvking face. The rich are dismantling American society and stealing every penny right in front of our eyes, and you blame Obama and entertain the idea of satanic lizard people. Which is my impression of everyone on Fox News, where you seem to get some of your information. No wonder the right-wing Republicans have waged war against education for decades-they get their Idiocracy, a nation of home-schooled mouth breathers who will accept any bullshit shoved their way. God help us all.

Why isn't it possible? We're on a rock billions of years old which spawned its own life hurtling through a universe bigger than the imagination can comprehend. I don't think I'd be achieving anything striking things off my list as impossible.

You clearly got your ideas of the tea party from the mainstream. I already stated the tea party has been co-opted, please don't smear me as a tea bagger. And yes, the rich are dismantling American society and using Obama as a front man. What don't you get? Obama was a media sensation, and who owns the media? The super rich. I don't blame Obama, he's following orders, and again, its not lizards. Phew, and like Drico you oversimplify. I don't get my news from Fox, don't you read? I've explained thoroughly the significance of the video, and its not because I believe a word of what comes out of Geraldo's mouth. I think your main roadblock is the fact you can't get past democrats and republicans. I'm not right or left wing, the two parties are both equally tainted.

OK, I was going to stay out of this, because it goes nowhere and you can't be convinced otherwise. I'm surprised Drico went to the lengths he did here. But with your comments on the Constitution, it shows how you are truly out of your mind on something that has strong historical documentation. That document was formed by 55 or so people who had differing personalities and ideas. They came to a compromise. If you think original intent (i.e. the Constitution has a literal meaning, and we can figure it out) is true, I will take you down a peg or 9 on that. The framers, as smart as they were supposedly (remember, some of the framers did NOT sign the document), left out a bill of rights. It was the ANTI-federalists who wanted it, and they only wanted it as a ploy to get a new convention. If not for the work of Madison pushing through the bill of 12 (only 10 passed) rights, we wouldn't have those enumerated. And yet, how much do we know of discussion of the bill of rights in the congress? Almost nothing, reporting was extremely scarce. You might perhaps claim that you can understand the true nature of what the founding fathers were after. In some cases, yes. In others, not even close. What DOES the second amendment mean? It's an amalgamation. Both sides are right, and both wrong.

I'm sorry, but anyone who starts talking like a "tea partiest", that all we need is the damn constitution back in power, just has no clue what they are talking about. In the meantime, I will hope you misspoke or wrote poorly. Feel free to clarify.

Way to strike up on an irrelevant point. And again, I'm not a 'tea partiest'. Because I praise the constitution I'm a tea partiest? And fine, so don't go back to the constitution, whatever. I was just responding to a minor point of Markus'. How we should govern ourselves after the elite are gone isn't high on my list of priorities right now, and is a broad topic on its own. At the moment the majority are still concerned with celebrities and football, and therefore waking them up is my focus. The constitution isn't perfect, well that's big news there firth. But I'd go back to 1776 in a heartbeat if it meant the Patriot Act and all these other godawful degrading and intrusive laws and acts were eliminated.

[gregf]

I think it is a good thing that the next generation are asking questions.

However my advice is never "believe" and never "reject", unless there is
overwhelming evidence that has been tested and verified. Until that time,
just have a working(temporary) theory.

What should matter is evidence, evidence, evidence, and an ability to dump
ones own theory if evidence counters that.

There is strange loose ends to 9/11. The one I remember is the lady who kept
the dust from the twin towers. It contains chemical residue of a potent explosive.
The interesting thing is it is a variation of normal explosive, a variation that only,
the US military has access to.

Yet other things the 9/11 conspiracy people have raised, have been shown to be quite wrong.
So clearly they are not taking an engineers approach to the evidence. The result
is they will be scoffed at.

My advice to my friends here : be patient engineers. Don't say why a plane crashed
until you have the right evidence and are really certain why.

[whateverman42]

Great post greg, thanks for the levity. I admit it might not be a conspiracy, but there's too many loose ends to ignore. The problem is like you said, we go after every single thread, even if its a dead end. But we're just regular people surfing the internet, and debunkers focus on conspiracists personalities to dismiss the theories too often.

Thermite being found in the dust (quite extraordinary) and firefighters talking about the numerous secondary explosions raise my eyebrows the most. Not to mention the plane in Shanksville vaporizing on impact, the fact that no video of a plane hitting the Pentagon has been released... oh, doing it again. Come on, this whole event deserves a rigorous independent investigation .

Anyways, its good to have a healthy debate on this stuff, I'm enjoying it.

[York Minster]

"Please find anything I typed that said I believe lizards rule us. Its simply possible like anything is possible, though its unlikely and I don't subscribe to that particular idea. "

Uh, you still think it's possible, if unlikely. Aside from that crazy-ass nonsense , I really wish Teabaggers who ALL fancy themselves experts on the Constitution would just go die of their own lunacy and hypocrisy. Yeah, they love and worship the US Constitution so much that they can't wait to shred it, amend it, change it . It's a rough draft! to them, for the fuhuct dumb-ass brutal plutocracy they would love to create.

Lizard people. How about the supperrich owners of society playing you rubes like puppets? It amazes me that you see conspiracy everywhere, when the real, actual conspiracy is in front of your fvking face. The rich are dismantling American society and stealing every penny right in front of our eyes, and you blame Obama and entertain the idea of satanic lizard people. Which is my impression of everyone on Fox News, where you seem to get some of your information. No wonder the right-wing Republicans have waged war against education for decades-they get their Idiocracy, a nation of home-schooled mouth breathers who will accept any bullshit shoved their way. God help us all.

Why isn't it possible? We're on a rock billions of years old which spawned its own life hurtling through a universe bigger than the imagination can comprehend. I don't think I'd be achieving anything striking things off my list as impossible.

You clearly got your ideas of the tea party from the mainstream. I already stated the tea party has been co-opted, please don't smear me as a tea bagger. And yes, the rich are dismantling American society and using Obama as a front man. What don't you get? Obama was a media sensation, and who owns the media? The super rich. I don't blame Obama, he's following orders, and again, its not lizards. Phew, and like Drico you oversimplify. I don't get my news from Fox, don't you read? I've explained thoroughly the significance of the video, and its not because I believe a word of what comes out of Geraldo's mouth. I think your main roadblock is the fact you can't get past democrats and republicans. I'm not right or left wing, the two parties are both equally tainted.

OK, I was going to stay out of this, because it goes nowhere and you can't be convinced otherwise. I'm surprised Drico went to the lengths he did here. But with your comments on the Constitution, it shows how you are truly out of your mind on something that has strong historical documentation. That document was formed by 55 or so people who had differing personalities and ideas. They came to a compromise. If you think original intent (i.e. the Constitution has a literal meaning, and we can figure it out) is true, I will take you down a peg or 9 on that. The framers, as smart as they were supposedly (remember, some of the framers did NOT sign the document), left out a bill of rights. It was the ANTI-federalists who wanted it, and they only wanted it as a ploy to get a new convention. If not for the work of Madison pushing through the bill of 12 (only 10 passed) rights, we wouldn't have those enumerated. And yet, how much do we know of discussion of the bill of rights in the congress? Almost nothing, reporting was extremely scarce. You might perhaps claim that you can understand the true nature of what the founding fathers were after. In some cases, yes. In others, not even close. What DOES the second amendment mean? It's an amalgamation. Both sides are right, and both wrong.

I'm sorry, but anyone who starts talking like a "tea partiest", that all we need is the damn constitution back in power, just has no clue what they are talking about. In the meantime, I will hope you misspoke or wrote poorly. Feel free to clarify.

Way to strike up on an irrelevant point. And again, I'm not a 'tea partiest'. Because I praise the constitution I'm a tea partiest? And fine, so don't go back to the constitution, whatever. I was just responding to a minor point of Markus'. How we should govern ourselves after the elite are gone isn't high on my list of priorities right now, and is a broad topic on its own. At the moment the majority are still concerned with celebrities and football, and therefore waking them up is my focus. The constitution isn't perfect, well that's big news there firth. But I'd go back to 1776 in a heartbeat if it meant the Patriot Act and all these other godawful degrading and intrusive laws and acts were eliminated.

What was the irrelevant point? Was it irrelevant because it delt a blow to your argument? Read what I wrote, I never called you a tea party person. I said "talking like". Which you were. You never said the document was perfect, so I never refuted that claim. You're trying to minimize my point to look better. I'm against the Patriot Act as well. But in 1798 there were the Sedition Acts. And you know what? Those were thought by the FEDERALISTS to be totally rational. Because the first amendment was never thought to extend to libel against the governement. It was part of the common law, and part of what went into the "freedom of speech" that you couldn't libel the government, that that wasn't free. Only when the Jeffersonians objected did a new precendent form. Any precious rights we have today are formed from over 200 years of history since 1776. IF you gave up some of the bad we have now, I can gaurantee you, 1776 had it's own bad.

[whateverman42]

What was the irrelevant point? Was it irrelevant because it delt a blow to your argument? Read what I wrote, I never called you a tea party person. I said "talking like". Which you were. You never said the document was perfect, so I never refuted that claim. You're trying to minimize my point to look better. I'm against the Patriot Act as well. But in 1798 there were the Sedition Acts. And you know what? Those were thought by the FEDERALISTS to be totally rational. Because the first amendment was never thought to extend to libel against the governement. It was part of the common law, and part of what went into the "freedom of speech" that you couldn't libel the government, that that wasn't free. Only when the Jeffersonians objected did a new precendent form. Any precious rights we have today are formed from over 200 years of history since 1776. IF you gave up some of the bad we have now, I can gaurantee you, 1776 had it's own bad.

Well I posted a video of Geraldo talking to an engineer and a victims family member about Building 7, and I wanted to discuss the significance. It branched naturally into conspiracies, fine, and Markus made a remark that we have no options other than the Illuminati ( ). I thought the constitution was a good one, and that raised your ire. Fine, you dealt a blow to something I don't find too important. I'm a Canadian, don't forget, so I'm not too aware of the ins and outs of it, but the basic outline me likey. But its fine, I respectfully retract my point about the constitution, you can win that one, I'd rather talk about 911.

And if you don't like the Patriot Act, can I ask you why you think Obama hasn't gotten rid of it? Why would Bush care, after all? He has 4-8 years on office, he's not a dictator, how does this benefit him? Then its there for Obama, and so on, ready for any future puppet president.

And 'talking like' is painting me with that brush. You're comparing me to a tea party person, as though they own the right to like the constitution.

[York Minster]

And if you don't like the Patriot Act, can I ask you why you think Obama hasn't gotten rid of it?

I don't know. I'm not happy with Obama on a few issues, certainly not least the Afghanistan War which is not in public view, but which each weeks economist brings depressing news. I can't claim to understand what goes on in the white house in this administration or any other.

[Undertaker]

I quite admire whateverman's posts. Of course they are unbelievable but to have the balls to believe and post all this stuff, knowing he's going to get hammered, takes some guts imo.

[York Minster]

I quite admire whateverman's posts. Of course they are unbelievable but to have the balls to believe and post all this stuff, knowing he's going to get hammered, takes some guts imo.

I doubt he thought about getting thread raped before posting. When you believe in some of this stuff, you assume you're in the right, which mitigates any opprobrium that may come his way.

[raggatwin]

conspriracy theories do people like me, the left, no favours whatsoever because people associate them with us. 9/11 was no conspiracy but it was certainly exploited by Bush and the military industrial complex in order to line their pockets.

[whateverman42]

Thanks UT, I think. But Firth is sort of right, I can be shy in real life but not when it comes to this stuff. I talk to strangers! Just today I was sightseeing at the falls and they were spraying chemtrails, huge blatant grids, some of the worst I've ever seen. And I mentioned it to a couple next to me, who must have thought I was nuts. But I try to plant seeds, I remember I would have thought I was nuts a couple years ago. Waking up is a complex process and while intelligence is a big part of it, there's also luck and unpredictability involved.

Its sort of like a house on fire, or a pot of water on the stove. Naturally some feel the heat before others and awaken, for whatever reason, and all I'm doing right now is shoving your shoulders and shouting in your ear 'the house is on fire!'. Naturally I mostly get mumbles 'but I'm having such a nice dream about sports and sexy celebrities', but the time will come. Whether you wait til you inhale volumes of smoke, get first degree burns or die, you'll realize. I just wonder what it will take.

Will you accept naked images taken of you at the airport with a nice dose of radiation? Well, at least they give you the other option of getting molested. That might not do it. Even child molestation won't:

http://www.myvidster.com/video/600891/V ... Checkpoint



How about being videotaped 24/7 in public streets? Nah, you already put up with that.

Maybe when a police officer is beating you and arresting you with no due process will you realize an injustice to one is an injustice to all.



Fluoride and mercury and aspartame don't do it. Here's a challenge: anyone, find a single thing on the internet explaining the benefits of ingesting fluoride. Then after inevitably reading nothing but hazards, tell me why its dumped in our water supply. And while you're at it explain why there's mercury in vaccine's we give our children and take ourselves. And tell me I'm a kook because I think aspartame is a poison. Got an opinion on Monsanto and GMO foods? Perhaps you agree they're all bad things but, gasp, they could never be coordinated! Because the government can see no potential benefit in a sick populace being dependent upon drugs they control.

Hmm, what else. 9/11 and JFK have been adequately explained by the very people we're accusing, who also tell us we're unhinged for not believing billionaires with everything to lose. So that also won't work.

Chemtrails? Well that depends if you want to sit through a documentary.

conspriracy theories do people like me, the left, no favours whatsoever because people associate them with us. 9/11 was no conspiracy but it was certainly exploited by Bush and the military industrial complex in order to line their pockets.

Its nice you define yourself by a political party. You also identify with Coca Cola and Chevy, am I right? And if anything I'm often accused of being a republican. Anywho, your left media gatekeepers Colbert and Stewart are just as bad as O'Reilly and Hannitty, but again this has nothing to do with the left right paradigm. Here's a simple video explaining how they play you:



Sorry for the bad attitude . But your ignorance is actually killing me ! They can only do this stuff because we let them, and I got another dose of heavy metals today and I had to eat GMO food with a fraction of the nutrition it had decades ago, not just because they're evil, but because we do nothing about it.

[York Minster]

Whether or not you think it's right to put flouride in the water, I'm pretty sure we all know why it's there! I guess you don't want iodine in your salt either? Great, go get some natural sea salt then. Society is a compromise. And ethics are subjective. Look, whateverman, some of the things you name, like Monsanto, I agree with as being bad issues. But you're overboard with this stuff, and it's all the typical sh%t. At least come up with something new like San Diego doesn't really exist or Diet Squirt was propaganda aimed at 7 UP drinkers. Of all the people on the forum, even above Undertaker or PB, mole or bohemians, even myself, I deem you the most crazed. Congrats!

[markus]

I respect and like everyone who's passionate about something, that's the way life should be lived: being curious, questioning, getting involved, it's a sign of health not crazyness. The crazy people are the ones just consuming, living to satisfy their physical needs, living the life on an animal. The younger generations seem to be mainly focused on that, at least where I live...but good luck drawing their attention from Paris Hilton, even though she's already a has-been according to some...

[Your Funny Uncle]

I respect and like everyone who's passionate about something, that's the way life should be lived: being curious, questioning, getting involved, it's a sign of health not crazyness. The crazy people are the ones just consuming, living to satisfy their physical needs, living the life on an animal. The younger generations seem to be mainly focused on that, at least where I live...but good luck drawing their attention from Paris Hilton, even though she's already a has-been according to some...

True enough, but being so blinkered that the only people you believe are the likes Alex Jones and David Icke, who've made a career out of selling conspiracy theories and then having the gall to accuse others of being narrow minded is quite an annoying trait.

The problem with all this stuff is that to my mind it's just another emotional crutch. Conspiracy theorists need to believe that there's something to fight against. The world is shit, yes. Big corporations, polititians and various people in power in various places screw people over, yes. To put it down to some organised conspiracy though is just another way of trying to rationalise a world in which bad stuff happens essentially randomly. It's not the devil and it's not the illuminati, it's just various individuals in various places being selfish independently and often at odds with each other. Believing in conspiracy theories not accepting the real world, it's avoiding it.

[markus]

I respect and like everyone who's passionate about something, that's the way life should be lived: being curious, questioning, getting involved, it's a sign of health not crazyness. The crazy people are the ones just consuming, living to satisfy their physical needs, living the life on an animal. The younger generations seem to be mainly focused on that, at least where I live...but good luck drawing their attention from Paris Hilton, even though she's already a has-been according to some...

True enough, but being so blinkered that the only people you believe are the likes Alex Jones and David Icke, who've made a career out of selling conspiracy theories and then having the gall to accuse others of being narrow minded is quite an annoying trait.

The problem with all this stuff is that to my mind it's just another emotional crutch. Conspiracy theorists need to believe that there's something to fight against. The world is shit, yes. Big corporations, polititians and various people in power in various places screw people over, yes. To put it down to some organised conspiracy though is just another way of trying to rationalise a world in which bad stuff happens essentially randomly. It's not the devil and it's not the illuminati, it's just various individuals in various places being selfish independently and often at odds with each other. Believing in conspiracy theories not accepting the real world, it's avoiding it.

Maybe, but everyone has to start somewhere. Check back with Whateverman 10 years from now and maybe he'll agree with you, or maybe not...

[redsock]

Just today I was sightseeing at the falls and they were spraying chemtrails, huge blatant grids, some of the worst I've ever seen. And I mentioned it to a couple next to me, who must have thought I was nuts.

What do YOU think they are doing and to what ends and purposes ?