"Drinking tea like Tony Benn"

[JSDOUVRES]

It absolutely amazes me that you really believe that we have the space for an unrestricted number of people?? You must be off your nuts!

You've been asked to discontinue the discussion by the admin, yet you continue to spout outright lies about me and my opinions.

Stop it.

...some people can be pretty close minded when they want to...

Said without the merest trace of irony. Bravo.

I'm still waiting for the answers to my questions about your famous report. You know the question where you show me where the famous "missing information" is as well as where the actual "facts" lie. Read the migrant watch website, they analyse the report and show it for exactly what it is! But all you seem to be able to do is tell me to contact the writers? And even better now you are telling me to discontinue the discussion! A brilliant way to show that you don't have a leg to stand on! You see, that's what I see as close minded. Somebody that despite the overwhelming evidence and proof refuses to back down, answer questions regarding what you believe in and now telling me I have no right to have my opinion!

I'm embarrassed for you, I showed you the migrant watch analysis, now tell me where and how it possibly got it wrong? Oh, you can't can you, so time to get the topic closed! Classic! My only advice to you is don't believe everything you read , although it was written to please people just like you so I do have pity!

[raggatwin]

Migrant watch are a right wing think tank whose spin on the figures is not something that anyone who is socially liberal - be they centrist or left wing is ever likely to accept. I think danny c is probably somewhat exasperates with you, I know I am. I daresay your next line will be something on the line of cultural elitism, for my part I grew up on a council estate in a rough part of London, there is nothing middle class or elitist about me, indeed it's my experience of growing up in and around poverty that pushed me to the left. To see working class people on that 90 minute party political broadcast last night supporting what are, at least an economically, far right party saddens me. When Farage speaks about reducing regulation and taxes who do you think will benefit most from this, the working class? No, these pepple voting with their feet are voting for less rights at work, lower wages and financial security, Farage said he is a Thatcherite, how can that be any good for working class people? Where I do agree with Farage os that the EU is a bad thing for democracy. I do really think that you should give it up now....

[Patrick Bateman]

Give it up, JSDOUVRES. The professor won't be happy until there are 7 billion people living here. To be fair to him, I'm sure he houses refugees under his own roof like all the other champagne socialists.

[raggatwin]

Ahem, main grade lecturer not Professor.

[JSDOUVRES]

This is what I'm going on about, in work benefits which are largely ignored for some strange reason? To quote "For, thanks to tax credits, housing benefit and other handouts, a migrant earning just the minimum wage can expect to receive more than £28,000 annually if he has a partner and two children – two-thirds of which is a subsidy from the State.

It is this generous welfare package – an income nine times higher than on offer to a household in Romania, for example – that is such a potent lure." Two-thirds a subsidy from the state! And we wonder why the birth rate amongst foreign born mothers is higher in Britain than in their own countries? Not to mention families coming here that already have large households. Do we really wonder why so many are coming here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... efits.html

[One of the crowd]

This is what I'm going on about, in work benefits which are largely ignored for some strange reason? To quote "For, thanks to tax credits, housing benefit and other handouts, a migrant earning just the minimum wage can expect to receive more than £28,000 annually if he has a partner and two children – two-thirds of which is a subsidy from the State.

It is this generous welfare package – an income nine times higher than on offer to a household in Romania, for example – that is such a potent lure." Two-thirds a subsidy from the state! And we wonder why the birth rate amongst foreign born mothers is higher in Britain than in their own countries? Not to mention families coming here that already have large households. Do we really wonder why so many are coming here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... efits.html

Ive mentioned this before.

I used to work 37 hours a week, have no children living with me and therefore what I took home was all I had

I now work 16 hours a week and because income less than £10k, I pay no tax. I have two children residing with me and therefore claim (legally) child benefit, child tax credit, working tax credit, housing benefit. I could also ask for CSA off my ex wife but I don't.

My disposable income per month is 8 times greater than my previous situation so if I could, I could go and afford a big massive tattoo each and every month.

[JSDOUVRES]

I absolutely don't blame you for your situation, what you are doing makes more than sense and you are only using a system which at the end of the day would punish you for working longer hours. It is crazy and simply not fair. I think I am right in saying that the limit used to be 25 hours a week but was reduced to 16 a few years back but I could be wrong.

No wonder Britain is so popular with immigrants who want a slice of our cake, and who can blame them? Having kids and working short hours or not at all makes you better off than if you had a full time job. Now how is that right? Working does not pay here when it absolutely should and why would any sane person work longer to be worse off? Madness. I have a cousin who is a single parent and she tells me a similar story, her working full time would make her not just a little worse off but in a situation where she couldn't afford to live.

We need a happy medium where working pays, the current situation is crazy and no wonder people want to live and have children in this country. And believe me when I tell you that immigrants know how to play the game because they absolutely do, and Britain being a European partner means we can do absolutely nothing about it.

[Danny C]

Since the tabloid lies don't seem to be ceasing, despite the admin's polite request, I'm sure nobody will mind if I interject once again to add some facts:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... it-tourism

[One of the crowd]

I absolutely don't blame you for your situation, what you are doing makes more than sense and you are only using a system which at the end of the day would punish you for working longer hours. It is crazy and simply not fair. I think I am right in saying that the limit used to be 25 hours a week but was reduced to 16 a few years back but I could be wrong.

No wonder Britain is so popular with immigrants who want a slice of our cake, and who can blame them? Having kids and working short hours or not at all makes you better off than if you had a full time job. Now how is that right? Working does not pay here when it absolutely should and why would any sane person work longer to be worse off? Madness. I have a cousin who is a single parent and she tells me a similar story, her working full time would make her not just a little worse off but in a situation where she couldn't afford to live.

We need a happy medium where working pays, the current situation is crazy and no wonder people want to live and have children in this country. And believe me when I tell you that immigrants know how to play the game because they absolutely do, and Britain being a European partner means we can do absolutely nothing about it.

Indeed, I am just using the system.

A couple people on here are friends of mine on facebook and they will see Im not your "Jeremy Kyle" type parent.

The crazy thing is that if I work 15hrs 59 mins per week, I am NOT entitled to Working Tax Credit
But by working that 16th hour, I am entitled to an extra £75 per week (£300 per month)

The system is wrong.

[JSDOUVRES]

Since the tabloid lies don't seem to be ceasing, despite the admin's polite request, I'm sure nobody will mind if I interject once again to add some facts:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... it-tourism

So we have 600,000 Eu migrants living in this country that are actually not working? Whether that Includes pensioners, students or the disabled it is not really the point here is it? 600,000! I thought they only came here to do the jobs we are too lazy to do? I thought that we desperately need these people as they are making us so much money? It seems not. I suppose they are supporting themselves financially now though aren't they? Erm, I think not. But hey, there are no "facts" so I can't prove it! I'd wager a pretty good guess that they are not. Any made up or estimated reports to prove me wrong?

And this whole question and debate we have been having is not just about "benefit tourism", far from it and you know that very well. You are trying to focus on one small element of all this like usual in order to mislead.

And "less likely" doesn't really mean an awful lot. It means they still do of course. But maybe less? One person taking advantage is enough for me and for there to be as many as 7.5% out of work, I'd say my point is made. But lets not forget that these numbers are all "estimated" of course as official numbers do not exist. Might want to point out too that this report was made in October 2013, so does not count the new member countries. An important "detail" perhaps? Or not.

But the real dead giveaway about the report is this: it's been put together by the European commission..... Do I need to go on? Lets be honest, they can hardly be seen as impartial and unbiased now can they? You don't get more pro European than the European commission itself now!!!

Like I said before, you believe what you are told to believe by whom you choose to believe.... Open up your mind. And I'm still waiting for the answers to my previous questions. With that report you still somehow stand by written by Genius professors I would have thought that that would be easy? But no, just nothing. Silence. At least I have the balls to back up and fight for what I believe in. And please stop telling us that you are giving us "facts"!!!! Are you some kind of comedian? How on earth can you say for one minute that you are doing that? What are you talking about?

Oh and is One of the crowd's own experience a "tabloid lie" about what goes on in this country? And no disrespect to him at all, any sane person would do the same thing, absolutely, even an immigrant believe it or not Danny C, in fact many know the rules here better than we do! Although you will debate and deny that with more "facts" no doubt!!! Good luck.

[JSDOUVRES]

Looking forward to Farage battering Clegg again tonight! Showing him up once again for what he is. And as much as I would prefer Farage to steer clear of all talk on Putin, he is right in making the point that despite all the rough talk Europe is powerless and feeble when it actually comes to doing anything or even being able to do anything in regards to Russia.

[One of the crowd]

Before any backlash, I used to work 5 nights a week (again so I could be there for kids during the day for school runs etc)

I was asked to have my elder two kids on a permanent basis by my ex wife and the only way to do this was to work during the day and cutting my hours so I claim the benefits to support the salary I lost.

Its not my fault my disposable income is now greater than before.

[JSDOUVRES]

Before any backlash, I used to work 5 nights a week (again so I could be there for kids during the day for school runs etc)

I was asked to have my elder two kids on a permanent basis by my ex wife and the only way to do this was to work during the day and cutting my hours so I claim the benefits to support the salary I lost.

Its not my fault my disposable income is now greater than before.

You should not get and certainly don't deserve a backlash for doing something that everybody and anybody with any common sense would do. That is the system and all you are doing is using it, and rightly so.

[Danny C]

Academic-standard research summarily dismissed out of hand again, tabloid lies and anecdotes accepted without question.

There's a pattern emerging here.

What was that about believing what you want to believe?

[JSDOUVRES]

Academic-standard research summarily dismissed out of hand again, tabloid lies and anecdotes accepted without question.

There's a pattern emerging here.

What was that about believing what you want to believe?

Nah, its me not believing what you want me to believe and can't accept I don't.

So this wonderful "new" report (article) you've found (the other one not good enough for you anymore?). Based on facts that don't exist once again no doubt? Oh well, as long as its made by "Academics"!!! Brilliant. Anyway, where is the actual report? I don't see it, all I see is the usual stuff made to please people like you. Not just that but I did actually comment on it before I made the point that it was made by the European commission and I don't see you actually making any reference to that. Funny that... You have continued to tell me that people are here to work, when the article (not report) mentioned numbers of 600,000 who are not here to work. How does that work then? Once again, information like this is ignored and put to one side and the focus shifted to one particular element, which in this case is "benefit tourism". Work based benefits included etc? I wonder?

And yeah, the tabloids are all based on lies, obviously..... Even though a popular website is Migrant watch which has nothing to do with the tabloids and is a good source for information and a place that actually analysis these "brilliant" reports and sees them for what they are in a clear, precise and accurate way. The information found "missing" from your famous first report is undeniable and proves how misleading it was. I have asked you many times and have given you lots of opportunities to prove me and them wrong which you totally ignore. I wonder why? In fact you are now onto ANOTHER report as an obvious tactic to take the heat off of the inaccuracies proved from the first one. What more is there to say?

Here is an interesting article from today's Daily mail. It's not written by academics so is obviously all lies although the facts about work based benefits that it writes about are completely accurate and cannot be denied by anybody. But will be by you!
And 130,000 people a year predicted. But we have the space, hey Danny C!!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tinue.html